Mr. Van Loan said it is unfortunate that the Muslim community has been forced to debate a right that they had never asked for, but noted the controversy has inspired a wave of mischievousness that must now be addressed.
There were 70 cases during this fall's three by-elections in Quebec where people showed up with their faces covered, he said, including one man wearing a pumpkin on his head. Mr. Van Loan said he was not aware of any serious requests by Muslim women to vote with a veil during those by-elections.
"When people start to ridicule the rules that are in place for an election, that starts to erode public confidence in our system and I don't think we as parliamentarians can stand by and allow this to continue," Mr. Van Loan told the committee.
Shorter Van Loan: We gave in to the racists and the sexists.
The cowards. The wimps. They caved to bullies.
So it works to be a Brownshirt in this country, does it? Happy with that, Jack?
Wrong Jack. You want the image of NDP orange to convey "pumpkin" as in "pumpkinheads"? The real pumpkinheads are not the participants in the "wave of mischievousness" fad that has apparently broken out (who knew?), but pumpkinhead politicians.
I sent a note to the general inquiries section of their website asking if everyone in the Party had gone stupid and told them to terminate my monthly donation.
On the suggestion of the NDP switchboard, I just popped a phone call over to Pat Martin's office (privacy and related issues) - as good a recipient as any within the party. Gave the worker there a good sound piece of my mind on this. Like Dr. Dawg, this is quite simply a tear-up-the-card stance for me.
Canadians can vote in elections outside the country by mail, for God's sake. Why shouldn't Muslim women be able to wear their veils. The fact is few of them do. This bill is ridiculous.
Penny Priddy was the only MP to respond to my letter re: Robert Dziekanski's murder.
Here is how she opened her letter:
Thank you for writing to me about this sad situation. In my riding of Surrey North we take pride in opening our arms to many new Canadians every year. Getting to meet many of these new citizens and listening to their stories is one of the best parts of my job...
Strikes me that this latest move by Layton and the NDP doesn't exactly sing to their love of "new Canadians". I can't believe that the party fell for this obviously bigoted ploy. Harper has a hate-on for Muslims just like Blair and Bush and this amendment to the Elections Act is motivated by that bigotry.
well, that's mature! was layton quoted in that story? was ANYONE from the ndp quoted in that story? how are you people so sure that the story is totally correct?
how are you people so sure that the story is totally correct?
It seems a straightforward enough story to me. If it turns out to be wrong I'll be quite happy to issue a public apology to Layton and to the NDP. But if you'll recall not so long ago when MPs were ganging up on Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand, the NDP were right in the thick of it along with Conservatives, Liberals and the BQ. So this isn't that difficult to believe.
And by the way, the story has now been out there all day and surely by now the NDP know what the reaction has been. If the story's wrong, there's been no sign of a correction.
So, what about the Liberals? Are they changing their position on this topic?
The article quotes one of their MPs expressing some doubts about the bill, but doesn't suggest that they're planning to vote against it. If they are, I'll give them credit for belatedly discovering some principles.
This is one of the (many) things I love about pogge.ca. I've been feeling pretty sad and lonely in my disillusionment with the NDP on this one, ever since the disgusting attack on Mayrand was made earlier this year, so it's nice to find others who are evidently as hurt and upset by this as I am.
When this first oozed to the surface, I (like theo) sent a passionate plea, via the party Web page, for the NDP to reverse course on this. I only *threatened* to cut off my donations, however, so evidently that wasn't enough to warrant a response. All I've heard in the months since have been the usual begging communiques (which I've always found a little annoying anyway, since I already donate regularly).
Now, I know I'm only a Little Dipper, and I wasn't expecting a personal call from Jack or anything, but some sort of acknowledgment would have been appropriate. I thought I made it pretty clear in my message that this wasn't some policy wrangle: I've continued to support the Party through many strategic and tactical plays that I don't particularly agree with. Although I understand how and why they happen amongst people of principle, I've always lamented the circular firing squads that left-leaning parties everywhere seem to form so effortlessly. At the end of the day, I'm actually dopey and idealistic enough to believe that social democracy is our last, best hope, and I further believed (note the past tense) that the NDP -- for all its imperfections -- was the best vehicle available to achieve it.
But now, as the hockey players say, it's "gut-check" time ... Can I really countenance the idea of my money supporting this sort of vicious race-baiting and button-pushing, to say nothing of the gratuitous bullying of a public official for the appalling crime of (gasp) *doing his job*?
I'm not a huge Kady O'Malley fan, but her 'blog post on this has it exactly right when it talks about marching off the cliff. Portentious as it sounds, I really do think that how we continue to be muticultural in a world increasingly hostile to it will be one of the main things history will judge our society -- including its political parties -- on. This is difficult stuff, and the guiding brains of the NDP will, like the rest of us, make mistakes and mis-steps; human error, however, is not the same as deliberate, calculated attacks on the fundamental decency of our society. I can certainly forgive the former, but the latter ... I don't know where it leaves me. Wanna form a support group?
the guiding brains of the NDP will, like the rest of us, make mistakes and mis-steps
Agreed but it's difficult to treat this as a mistake. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a single reported instance of a veiled Muslim woman refusing to lift her veil at the request of an electoral officer if there was some concern about her right to vote. There hasn't been a single reported instance of electoral fraud by a veiled Muslim woman or, for that matter, any Muslim. There was simply no threat to the integrity of our electoral system. This is a phony crisis created by wingnuts and to support this legislation as it stands is to give in to the wingnuts. It's exactly the wrong thing to do and it's not rocket science. All it does is point a giant finger at Muslim Canadians and say "You're different and we don't trust you."
Thanks, pogge, both for your message and, more generally, for providing this great forum. Just a note of clarification, however: I agree with you completely that this case is not a mistake, but rather, as I said in my original comment, a deliberated, calculated attack on the fundamental values of multicultural tolerance. That's why I'm having such a hard time with it.
I realize my long-windedness sometimes muddies my points, though :o)
Hmm. Interesting. I say things like this about Moustache and people want to beat up on me. Rank really must have its privileges ;-)
This is just the latest in what is becoming a litany of blunders by the Party leadership. They are making it very easy to trot out something originally written about Micro$oft - if the Laytonites are the solution, it isn't much of a problem.
What seems to be happening is that the old line leadership of the NDP (including Layton) have made exactly the same calculation as the old line leadership of the Democratic Party. "The progressive base isn't going to abandon us because they have nowhere else to go. So we can safely ignore them and kiss as much right wing ass as we think necessary because the progressives are going to vote for us by default."
Of course, this worked a whole lot better for the Democratic Dinosaurs before the progressive netroots started organizing and slapping them silly for their stupidity. Perhaps we need our own version of "Crashing the Gate".
It also make me wonder if it isn't a less daunting task to turn the Green Party into a progressive party than it is to unseat the Dipper Dinosaurs and turn the NDP back into a progressive party.
I doubt it is intentional on the part of the NDP leadership but they are managing to make Buzz Hargrove's support for strategic voting look like good sense.
I have been in front of the curve often enough to have come to appreciate the value of asbestos underwear.
As for the green fuzzy stuff at the back of the fridge ..., sorry the fridge has been taken over by the Terrist Kommando Kittens. Knowing them, I have a bad feeling that green stuff may be Soylent Green.
Just because I have taken to writing the News You Can Use for Progressives column doesn't mean I actually have time to, ya know, use the news ;-)
Shorter Van Loan: We gave in to the racists and the sexists.
The cowards. The wimps. They caved to bullies.
So it works to be a Brownshirt in this country, does it? Happy with that, Jack?
Wrong Jack. You want the image of NDP orange to convey "pumpkin" as in "pumpkinheads"? The real pumpkinheads are not the participants in the "wave of mischievousness" fad that has apparently broken out (who knew?), but pumpkinhead politicians.
Right on. More at my place. I'm waiting to hear back from Paul Dewar shortly--he's in caucus, and caught a stiff note from me on his Blackberry.
I'm going to find out shortly, I fear, just how many pieces an NDP party card can be torn into.
I sent a note to the general inquiries section of their website asking if everyone in the Party had gone stupid and told them to terminate my monthly donation.
On the suggestion of the NDP switchboard, I just popped a phone call over to Pat Martin's office (privacy and related issues) - as good a recipient as any within the party. Gave the worker there a good sound piece of my mind on this. Like Dr. Dawg, this is quite simply a tear-up-the-card stance for me.
Idjits.
Canadians can vote in elections outside the country by mail, for God's sake. Why shouldn't Muslim women be able to wear their veils. The fact is few of them do. This bill is ridiculous.
Penny Priddy was the only MP to respond to my letter re: Robert Dziekanski's murder.
Here is how she opened her letter:
Thank you for writing to me about this sad situation. In my riding of Surrey North we take pride in opening our arms to many new Canadians every year. Getting to meet many of these new citizens and listening to their stories is one of the best parts of my job...
Strikes me that this latest move by Layton and the NDP doesn't exactly sing to their love of "new Canadians". I can't believe that the party fell for this obviously bigoted ploy. Harper has a hate-on for Muslims just like Blair and Bush and this amendment to the Elections Act is motivated by that bigotry.
well, that's mature! was layton quoted in that story? was ANYONE from the ndp quoted in that story? how are you people so sure that the story is totally correct?
well, that's mature!
Why thank you. ;-)
was ANYONE from the ndp quoted in that story?
The story names NDP MP Yvon Godin.
how are you people so sure that the story is totally correct?
It seems a straightforward enough story to me. If it turns out to be wrong I'll be quite happy to issue a public apology to Layton and to the NDP. But if you'll recall not so long ago when MPs were ganging up on Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand, the NDP were right in the thick of it along with Conservatives, Liberals and the BQ. So this isn't that difficult to believe.
And by the way, the story has now been out there all day and surely by now the NDP know what the reaction has been. If the story's wrong, there's been no sign of a correction.
So, what about the Liberals? Are they changing their position on this topic?
The article quotes one of their MPs expressing some doubts about the bill, but doesn't suggest that they're planning to vote against it. If they are, I'll give them credit for belatedly discovering some principles.
Hello all:
This is one of the (many) things I love about pogge.ca. I've been feeling pretty sad and lonely in my disillusionment with the NDP on this one, ever since the disgusting attack on Mayrand was made earlier this year, so it's nice to find others who are evidently as hurt and upset by this as I am.
When this first oozed to the surface, I (like theo) sent a passionate plea, via the party Web page, for the NDP to reverse course on this. I only *threatened* to cut off my donations, however, so evidently that wasn't enough to warrant a response. All I've heard in the months since have been the usual begging communiques (which I've always found a little annoying anyway, since I already donate regularly).
Now, I know I'm only a Little Dipper, and I wasn't expecting a personal call from Jack or anything, but some sort of acknowledgment would have been appropriate. I thought I made it pretty clear in my message that this wasn't some policy wrangle: I've continued to support the Party through many strategic and tactical plays that I don't particularly agree with. Although I understand how and why they happen amongst people of principle, I've always lamented the circular firing squads that left-leaning parties everywhere seem to form so effortlessly. At the end of the day, I'm actually dopey and idealistic enough to believe that social democracy is our last, best hope, and I further believed (note the past tense) that the NDP -- for all its imperfections -- was the best vehicle available to achieve it.
But now, as the hockey players say, it's "gut-check" time ... Can I really countenance the idea of my money supporting this sort of vicious race-baiting and button-pushing, to say nothing of the gratuitous bullying of a public official for the appalling crime of (gasp) *doing his job*?
I'm not a huge Kady O'Malley fan, but her 'blog post on this has it exactly right when it talks about marching off the cliff. Portentious as it sounds, I really do think that how we continue to be muticultural in a world increasingly hostile to it will be one of the main things history will judge our society -- including its political parties -- on. This is difficult stuff, and the guiding brains of the NDP will, like the rest of us, make mistakes and mis-steps; human error, however, is not the same as deliberate, calculated attacks on the fundamental decency of our society. I can certainly forgive the former, but the latter ... I don't know where it leaves me. Wanna form a support group?
the guiding brains of the NDP will, like the rest of us, make mistakes and mis-steps
Agreed but it's difficult to treat this as a mistake. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a single reported instance of a veiled Muslim woman refusing to lift her veil at the request of an electoral officer if there was some concern about her right to vote. There hasn't been a single reported instance of electoral fraud by a veiled Muslim woman or, for that matter, any Muslim. There was simply no threat to the integrity of our electoral system. This is a phony crisis created by wingnuts and to support this legislation as it stands is to give in to the wingnuts. It's exactly the wrong thing to do and it's not rocket science. All it does is point a giant finger at Muslim Canadians and say "You're different and we don't trust you."
Thanks, pogge, both for your message and, more generally, for providing this great forum. Just a note of clarification, however: I agree with you completely that this case is not a mistake, but rather, as I said in my original comment, a deliberated, calculated attack on the fundamental values of multicultural tolerance. That's why I'm having such a hard time with it.
I realize my long-windedness sometimes muddies my points, though :o)
I agree with you completely that this case is not a mistake
Oh I figured you did. I just took the opportunity to spell out what I didn't have time to write yesterday.
Hmm. Interesting. I say things like this about Moustache and people want to beat up on me. Rank really must have its privileges ;-)
This is just the latest in what is becoming a litany of blunders by the Party leadership. They are making it very easy to trot out something originally written about Micro$oft - if the Laytonites are the solution, it isn't much of a problem.
What seems to be happening is that the old line leadership of the NDP (including Layton) have made exactly the same calculation as the old line leadership of the Democratic Party. "The progressive base isn't going to abandon us because they have nowhere else to go. So we can safely ignore them and kiss as much right wing ass as we think necessary because the progressives are going to vote for us by default."
Of course, this worked a whole lot better for the Democratic Dinosaurs before the progressive netroots started organizing and slapping them silly for their stupidity. Perhaps we need our own version of "Crashing the Gate".
It also make me wonder if it isn't a less daunting task to turn the Green Party into a progressive party than it is to unseat the Dipper Dinosaurs and turn the NDP back into a progressive party.
I doubt it is intentional on the part of the NDP leadership but they are managing to make Buzz Hargrove's support for strategic voting look like good sense.
Rank really must have its privileges
Um, timing is everything? Yeah, that's it.
mahigan, if you would just take your turn cleaning out the green fuzzy stuff at the back of the fridge ...
Um, timing is everything?
I have been in front of the curve often enough to have come to appreciate the value of asbestos underwear.
As for the green fuzzy stuff at the back of the fridge ..., sorry the fridge has been taken over by the Terrist Kommando Kittens. Knowing them, I have a bad feeling that green stuff may be Soylent Green.
Just because I have taken to writing the News You Can Use for Progressives column doesn't mean I actually have time to, ya know, use the news ;-)
http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2007/11/whoops-ndp-gets-bum-rap.html
Posted on that 3-1/2 hours ago. I assure you that having called Layton an idiot, I'll watch the story unfold.